Redress is obviously important, but more so are measures to ensure abuse doesn't happen, which to me means very significant deterrents. Penalties applying not only to abuse perpetrators but also to those that cover up such abuse. All applying retrospectively irrespective of past or present political status or position and preferably without respect for parliamentary immunity. No wet fish slapping need apply.
In the paragraph on the Budget implications for recompense, did you mean to say tax rises instead of tax cuts? Surely some form of tax increase, or even a new tax on the 'sorted' property owners, would be fair. And unlikely from the current government, who seem to have been dismissing the wrong public servants, surely Jagose realises she must go for any credibility to be retained.
As a newly qualified social worker back in 1980 I met some Canadian social workers who said that you need to ask kids the right questions to understand whether sexual abuse was happening i.e. specific questions. I quickly organised a team training session so that we could improve our practice. I worked in the UK in residential social work for 3 years - were any of the kids being sexually abused when staff stayed overnight when we did 24 hour shifts? I hope not but maybe they were - other people in the system certainly let us down over and over again. On my return to NZ I was a senior social worker in Porirua and then the person managing the senior social workers in Wellington. At this time ritual abuse was surfacing and the Peter Ellis case was hitting the news. As a group of social workers leaders we worked hard to progress practice and worked with other psych and health professionals to deliver what we felt were progressive services. In response to the growing questions around sexual abuse we organised the first and only child sexual abuse conference in NZ to raise awareness and increase knowledge and skills. Throughout this time we were not aware of the systemic abuse in our institutions and camps we sent kids to. We trusted our colleagues in our institutions to be principled and to follow best practice. After a re-structure I ended up at head office and eventually became the national manager for youth justice - this was a policy role as the regions ran the operational side of things. I was not aware of, or made aware of the abuse that was going on. If I had been I would have taken action. I left in 1994 following a restructure. The Royal Commission has been tough to follow as my time working in the system covers the time when so much abuse was occurring. Some reflections. Firstly we trusted people to do the right thing. We were simply unaware of the predators who were attracted to this work. Should we have known back then? Probably, as I expect we were naive. Secondly, there was a rise in the role of lawyers during this time and I had a few run ins where I felt the law was an ass and didn’t allow us to do what was right. So it became very risk averse and everything was weighed up against the law when I felt that law should underpin practice not drive it. Lastly, and this is important, we were public servants who worked within the rules and policies that we had. Over time we worked hard to influence change (1989 Children, Young Persons and their Families Act) at local and national levels and to improve the system for cyp and their families. Despite our best efforts, appalling things were happening. I’ve reflected a lot on what I could have done differently. It’s hard when you simply didn’t know, despite being feminist, rights focused, questioning the status quo and being able to take a system-wide approach to change. In more recent years I have watched the constant reinvention of this system with sadness as Oranga Tamariki continues to fail (some of its cyp and their whanau). My final comment is to say that the cyp and whanau that OT works with are far from easy to work with and that the system will never be tidy and without problems. Lastly, I’d like to give a shout out to the people in OT, Iwi and community groups who are doing this mahi right now with little thanks or appreciation - Kia kaha!
Good comments Meredith. I think one of big lessons is that there has to be a way for any claims of abuse to be made, verified and dealt with. Verification is important because it is too easy to say someone is an abuser and once the claim has been made it does not matter if they are or not. It also tarnishes all of the good people working in the organisation.
I am curious as to where these children came from. Were they the offspring of men who did not return from WW2, opening the way for step-dads? Or were their WW2 dads suffering from undiagnosed (then) post war trauma disorders (eg my father, self-diagnosed)? It seems most unlikely that there was an industrial level 'sex abuse/traffic industry' back then. However, there was an avalanche of 'abandoned' children at a time when institutional care theories were likely based on 19th century English boarding school ideas of child discipline. It is my opinion there is a lot more to tell. Contexts cannot be removed from this debate; as far as I can tell these have not been described or assessed.
Sadly, this is another example of how corrupt the political, legal and regulatory agencies are, not just here in NZ but also globally. These people should be personally held accountable for their decisions and actions, but yet again, the everyday people will pay for the immoral and disgusting behaviour these people participated in or allowed to continue. And one must ask, how many of these abused and vulnerable children ended up in our jails?. Without accountability, transparency and morality this continues.
Chilling reading, this was happening to the most vulnerable in Society and it was just swept under the carpet .. How do you redress a situation that has probably destroyed someones life ? Money isn't going to be enough by itself , heads do need to roll - and we need to know has the abuse actually ended now ? or has it been institutionalised ?????
Simple answer to the above, there is no answer, abuse of children in care and adults, is a world wide problem, we know sex slavery is a major industry, third world and first, and as mentioned the people doing the abuse, rape, murder, belong to the world tribal elite. If hard factual proof can be found those abusers need to be prosecuted, if found guilty not only jail, but all their worldly goods should be confiscated sold and the proceeds given to the victims? The other part of this how much money should be given to the victims, and yes the money comes from the state, but it is tax payers money that will be given out, the hard question is why should the tax payer be expected to cover the arses of the bureaucrats who lied and stuffed up, the tax payer is hung out to dry, while the gate keepers walk free, we live in a seriously whucked up country with no real accountability?
I believe the issue is how do you compensate/redress someone whose child hood/early teens/teens was utterly ruined and these people are now what 50 or 60 years old and not really able to participate in society with respect to relationships/alcohol/drugs that we non victims just take for granted ...
Wrap around support for the rest of their lives. If they want it. A roof, food, clothing, counseling, vocational support and whatever else. Pie in the sky I know 🤔
That literally is the $64k question, they are a lost group of human beings that have been swept aside, any dreams they had will be passed memories, in a nutshell it is a whuckup.
The bigger context is the culture of child and female abuse in general, not just in institutional care. I remember hearing back in the 70's that it was accepted practice in a certain rural town for men to sell their daughters and wives for sex for a crate of beer on the weekends. Nothing will change until these attitudes change - it's just that there were more opportunities for those in power and in charge of institutions to carry out this systemic abuse.
There appear to be two major damning issues here:
1. Ongoing abuse.
2. (Ongoing?) Cover up of abuse
Redress is obviously important, but more so are measures to ensure abuse doesn't happen, which to me means very significant deterrents. Penalties applying not only to abuse perpetrators but also to those that cover up such abuse. All applying retrospectively irrespective of past or present political status or position and preferably without respect for parliamentary immunity. No wet fish slapping need apply.
In the paragraph on the Budget implications for recompense, did you mean to say tax rises instead of tax cuts? Surely some form of tax increase, or even a new tax on the 'sorted' property owners, would be fair. And unlikely from the current government, who seem to have been dismissing the wrong public servants, surely Jagose realises she must go for any credibility to be retained.
As a newly qualified social worker back in 1980 I met some Canadian social workers who said that you need to ask kids the right questions to understand whether sexual abuse was happening i.e. specific questions. I quickly organised a team training session so that we could improve our practice. I worked in the UK in residential social work for 3 years - were any of the kids being sexually abused when staff stayed overnight when we did 24 hour shifts? I hope not but maybe they were - other people in the system certainly let us down over and over again. On my return to NZ I was a senior social worker in Porirua and then the person managing the senior social workers in Wellington. At this time ritual abuse was surfacing and the Peter Ellis case was hitting the news. As a group of social workers leaders we worked hard to progress practice and worked with other psych and health professionals to deliver what we felt were progressive services. In response to the growing questions around sexual abuse we organised the first and only child sexual abuse conference in NZ to raise awareness and increase knowledge and skills. Throughout this time we were not aware of the systemic abuse in our institutions and camps we sent kids to. We trusted our colleagues in our institutions to be principled and to follow best practice. After a re-structure I ended up at head office and eventually became the national manager for youth justice - this was a policy role as the regions ran the operational side of things. I was not aware of, or made aware of the abuse that was going on. If I had been I would have taken action. I left in 1994 following a restructure. The Royal Commission has been tough to follow as my time working in the system covers the time when so much abuse was occurring. Some reflections. Firstly we trusted people to do the right thing. We were simply unaware of the predators who were attracted to this work. Should we have known back then? Probably, as I expect we were naive. Secondly, there was a rise in the role of lawyers during this time and I had a few run ins where I felt the law was an ass and didn’t allow us to do what was right. So it became very risk averse and everything was weighed up against the law when I felt that law should underpin practice not drive it. Lastly, and this is important, we were public servants who worked within the rules and policies that we had. Over time we worked hard to influence change (1989 Children, Young Persons and their Families Act) at local and national levels and to improve the system for cyp and their families. Despite our best efforts, appalling things were happening. I’ve reflected a lot on what I could have done differently. It’s hard when you simply didn’t know, despite being feminist, rights focused, questioning the status quo and being able to take a system-wide approach to change. In more recent years I have watched the constant reinvention of this system with sadness as Oranga Tamariki continues to fail (some of its cyp and their whanau). My final comment is to say that the cyp and whanau that OT works with are far from easy to work with and that the system will never be tidy and without problems. Lastly, I’d like to give a shout out to the people in OT, Iwi and community groups who are doing this mahi right now with little thanks or appreciation - Kia kaha!
Good comments Meredith. I think one of big lessons is that there has to be a way for any claims of abuse to be made, verified and dealt with. Verification is important because it is too easy to say someone is an abuser and once the claim has been made it does not matter if they are or not. It also tarnishes all of the good people working in the organisation.
Thank you Meredith 💜
I am curious as to where these children came from. Were they the offspring of men who did not return from WW2, opening the way for step-dads? Or were their WW2 dads suffering from undiagnosed (then) post war trauma disorders (eg my father, self-diagnosed)? It seems most unlikely that there was an industrial level 'sex abuse/traffic industry' back then. However, there was an avalanche of 'abandoned' children at a time when institutional care theories were likely based on 19th century English boarding school ideas of child discipline. It is my opinion there is a lot more to tell. Contexts cannot be removed from this debate; as far as I can tell these have not been described or assessed.
Very good point.
The only winners will be, as usual, lawyers
Everyone involved in the coverup should have already been sacked. Their greed for power overrode their decency. Disgusting human beings.
Sadly, this is another example of how corrupt the political, legal and regulatory agencies are, not just here in NZ but also globally. These people should be personally held accountable for their decisions and actions, but yet again, the everyday people will pay for the immoral and disgusting behaviour these people participated in or allowed to continue. And one must ask, how many of these abused and vulnerable children ended up in our jails?. Without accountability, transparency and morality this continues.
Chilling reading, this was happening to the most vulnerable in Society and it was just swept under the carpet .. How do you redress a situation that has probably destroyed someones life ? Money isn't going to be enough by itself , heads do need to roll - and we need to know has the abuse actually ended now ? or has it been institutionalised ?????
Simple answer to the above, there is no answer, abuse of children in care and adults, is a world wide problem, we know sex slavery is a major industry, third world and first, and as mentioned the people doing the abuse, rape, murder, belong to the world tribal elite. If hard factual proof can be found those abusers need to be prosecuted, if found guilty not only jail, but all their worldly goods should be confiscated sold and the proceeds given to the victims? The other part of this how much money should be given to the victims, and yes the money comes from the state, but it is tax payers money that will be given out, the hard question is why should the tax payer be expected to cover the arses of the bureaucrats who lied and stuffed up, the tax payer is hung out to dry, while the gate keepers walk free, we live in a seriously whucked up country with no real accountability?
I believe the issue is how do you compensate/redress someone whose child hood/early teens/teens was utterly ruined and these people are now what 50 or 60 years old and not really able to participate in society with respect to relationships/alcohol/drugs that we non victims just take for granted ...
Wrap around support for the rest of their lives. If they want it. A roof, food, clothing, counseling, vocational support and whatever else. Pie in the sky I know 🤔
That literally is the $64k question, they are a lost group of human beings that have been swept aside, any dreams they had will be passed memories, in a nutshell it is a whuckup.
"It is alleged at the private locations they were sexually abused by former central government politicians and prominent public servants"
What is it with people in power and why do others indulge them by allowing them to get away with these activities?
The bigger context is the culture of child and female abuse in general, not just in institutional care. I remember hearing back in the 70's that it was accepted practice in a certain rural town for men to sell their daughters and wives for sex for a crate of beer on the weekends. Nothing will change until these attitudes change - it's just that there were more opportunities for those in power and in charge of institutions to carry out this systemic abuse.